codema.in
Tue 2 May 2023 2:59PM

Element banning: How should FSCI react to it?

KVM Kannan V M Public Seen by 11

Element is a client side application that communicates using matrix protocol. It is announced that element mobile app will be blocked in India. It is vague what will happen to other matrix clients, including element web and servers that is hosting it, and matrix servers. Technicality on how it will will be implemented on a federated service aside, we need to face few questions,

  1. Since we host synapse and element web, how should we face this order to block element app?

  2. This goes beyond just hosting services, but also we are promoting and encouraging people to use these apps. What will be the future of that?

  3. What is the legality of this blocking, is this just an attempt to get element app out of playstore, or somehow service providers like us will be under shadow of "actions against the interests of nation" or worse?

PP

Pirate Praveen Tue 2 May 2023 3:36PM

About the specific actions we need to take, I don't know the details yet. But from a legal point of view, I think this should be challenged in a court of law. We can probably start with a statement that will explain the issue to the general public and collaborate with IFF/SFLC.in to challenge this in a High Court or in Supreme Court. We probably need the exact copy of the order and know how are we supposed to comply with it.

PP

Pirate Praveen Tue 2 May 2023 3:48PM

From their logic “These apps do not have any representatives in India and cannot be contacted for seeking information as mandated by the Indian laws,” it appears they are really about the service and don't understand apps and service can be different.

https://indianexpress.com/article/india/mobile-apps-blocked-jammu-kashmir-terrorists-8585046/

KVM

Kannan V M Tue 2 May 2023 4:12PM

This reasoning will affect decentralized free software applications as whole, since a "representative" concept is not involved in it. Also will make impossible for online privacy in social medias, which is exactly the point of the steps taken.

KVM

Kannan V M Tue 2 May 2023 4:26PM

Could not find the order.

PP

Pirate Praveen Tue 2 May 2023 4:55PM

From the previous experience of banning tiktok, we can assume they will ask google to remove from play store and ask ips to block some domains - not sure which all, it could include matrix.org, being the default but we can't be sure yet.

PP

Pirate Praveen Tue 2 May 2023 5:10PM

For tiktok, and for most chat apps in that list, de-listing from play store and blocking the main domain was sufficient, so they might be under the assumption that is sufficient here too.

KVM

Kannan V M Tue 2 May 2023 5:18PM

and the client and server was by same provider, here there are numerous clients and server is independently hosted by many, how do someone identify a matrix server client communication?

PP

Pirate Praveen Tue 2 May 2023 5:26PM

This depends on their competency and how desperate they are, and also on what the courts will say. Can they ban k9 mail the same way (the arguments are applicable to k9 mail as well)? May be they understand email is federated, but assume chats cannot be.

PP

Pirate Praveen Wed 3 May 2023 12:36PM

We had a meeting with other Free Software communities today about this issue and we will collaborate on challenging this order in a court of law. For now, lets draft a statement to inform people about the implications of this ban.

PP

Pirate Praveen Wed 3 May 2023 12:42PM

I'm starting a draft here https://cryptpad.fr/pad/#/2/pad/edit/uOa77lfKWzEfcPkoVckggECy/ please contribute

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