Restrict matrix group to Associates only?
Pirate Praveen
Public
Seen by 52
We see a lot of endless debates which will never conclude when people with opposing ideologies debate and it is a waste of time and effort (time and attention is not an infinte resource). I think the effort to keep the group in good shape is too much compared to the results, I'm wondering if we should make it associates only. What do you think?
Poll Created Sat 12 Jun 2021 3:46PM
Make our main (English) matrix group Associates only. Closed Tue 22 Jun 2021 3:20PM
Since there was no consensus at this level, it is moved to https://codema.in/d/4biWXDR5/restrict-our-main-matrix-group-to-associates-only/1
We can keep it open and mention this requirement in topic. When someone new joins, we can point them to our constitution and ask them to be Associates if they want to continue talking in the group. This way we keep the option of allowing those who found us from other places to ask for more information.
Results
| Results | Option | % of points | Voters | |
|---|---|---|---|---|
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Agree | 66.7% | 6 |
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| Abstain | 11.1% | 1 |
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| Disagree | 22.2% | 2 |
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| Block | 0.0% | 0 | ||
| Undecided | 0% | 177 |
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9 of 186 people have participated (4%)
Pirate Vik
Sat 12 Jun 2021 4:08PM
There is important work to do in growing a political party, having endless debates on social media is distracting and a waste of effort
Akshay
Sun 13 Jun 2021 6:43PM
This has to be acknowledged as a fundamental challenge in implementation of peer-to-peer anarchic democracy. As I don't have any answer myself, I'm abstaining.
Dhanesh
Mon 14 Jun 2021 12:45PM
The pointless discussions are only causing frustration and wasting brain cycles.
Pirate Bady
Mon 14 Jun 2021 7:31PM
let's also expand the FAQ to add why this decision is not against the basic principles or against free speech. here's an attempt: https://cryptpad.fr/pad/#/2/pad/edit/TrLMMzrl7Px-+Zit56OWdl-e/ (see the question "How open is Indian Pirates towards criticism?").
Firescar Wed 16 Jun 2021 12:42PM
You just called Indian Pirates as a left echo chamber. Haha. This is a fundamental change because only communists will be entering in this party space as associates now.
Pirate Vik Wed 16 Jun 2021 1:20PM
😆 hilarious
Pirate Praveen Mon 14 Jun 2021 4:20PM
@Akshay I don't think it is a fundamental change. From the beginning, peer to peer structure was considered for (permanent) members only. I never envisioned giving equal rights to just anyone who joins our discussion groups. They had to explicitly ask to be associates and then ask to be members, they also need vouching by existing members before they get equal rights as other members. The open discussions are just a way for people to get started and we just realized the cost of running such a group is very high from experience. So basically this is just winding up an experiment for wider participation.
Firescar Wed 16 Jun 2021 12:45PM
This is just winding up an experiment for wider participation. Lol what? The self pat on the back you often indulge in is cringeworthy.
Pirate Vik Wed 16 Jun 2021 1:23PM
@Firescar Thanks for helping to drive our policy making effort, your providing a great service to Indian Pirates 👍❤️🎉
Pirate Vik Tue 15 Jun 2021 12:22PM
@Pirate Praveen still, it was a good experiment and it actually resulted in the creation of a better framework for the organisation. I think there is an apt saying, is starts with something like "at first they laugh at you"
Akshay Tue 15 Jun 2021 1:22PM
Well. I'm wary of this being considered a slippery slope argument. But what will be the policy when the trolls start becoming associate members? What happens when someone slips in through the vouching process? It's possible to say that as long as that doesn't practically occur we don't have to worry.
What should be the basis of vouching someone? Should we ask that question only when that becomes a problem? Okay. I'll wait.
Pirate Praveen Tue 15 Jun 2021 6:53PM
When trolls become associates, that will be another milestone for our influence. We will know people are taking us more seriously to take extra effort to stop us. As Bady mentioned, I like to think we will have to go through these phases as well, 'First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, and then you win'. We will have to consider stricter rules for being an associate or think of removing associate status when they don't really follow the promise of agreeing to basic principles. As usual, the consensus based decision making among members is always available. As for trolls becoming members, if that becomes a serious issue and we fails to make any progress, we will have to fork. For vouching someone we need to look at their activities and genuineness. It is not like we need 100% agreement on everything, but are people reasonable in disagreements ? are they genuinely interested to find common ground ? etc.
Pirate Vik · Mon 14 Jun 2021 12:02PM
@Akshay why is it a fundamental change? On the contrary, the proposal itself is democratic and will only result in a change, if people vote for it. If dissenters views lose out but they have sufficient energy, they will fork the group and create something.