Adopt a moderation policy for matrix room
Started this in loomio by mistake.
I think the Matrix room needs to be moderated. The following content should be removed by any admin:
1) Spam
2) Off-topic messages
3) Personal attacks and harassment
I think it should be left to the discretion of admins to define what that constitutes.
@Pirate Praveen said
I think we can build a code of conduct to cover codema as well. Probably build on https://fsci.in/code-of-conduct/ This would enable anyone in the group to decide if something is crossing what is acceptable. We should also probably define how to respond in cases of violation.
@piratekp said
2 and 3 are relative and should be well defined to avoid ambiguity.
Alteration of the biased moderation policy.
proposal by Firescar Closed Sat 24 Apr 2021 9:00AM
Compelling anyone to change their language for gender sensitive individuals is a direct violation of the free speech that this party proclaims to instill. Gender pronouns is derived from sociological circles without scientific premise and Roman history has already witnessed its own transgenderism movement right before its collapse.
The individuals and the admins who submit to the notion that 'Gender is a social construct' are the ones that claim for compelling pronoun use.
Here's the Coc under question
Inclusive Language:
Use inclusive language whenever possible.
Unless the gender of a singular personal antecedent is otherwise specified, use the gender-neutral singular pronouns “they”, “them”, “their”, and “theirs”.
Avoid using “he” as a universal pronoun; likewise, avoid using binary alternatives such as “he/she”, “he or she”, or “(s)he”.
Use “humankind”, “humanity” or “human race” instead of “mankind”.
Use “artificial” or “human-caused” instead of “man-made”.
Use “everybody” or “people” instead of “guys”.
Rather than this being an act of inclusiveness, it is an act of compulsion without its grounds in science.
Here's a study that disproves that Gender is a social construct. (See attachment)
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/icd.2064
Failing to disprove the tenets of this study should signify that the whole gender neutrality phenomenon is removed from Coc on the grounds of being unscientific. Disagreeing to this poll would require you to submit a reasonable source or study with enough sample size that proves otherwise. News articles and metaphysical jargon of blogs isn't appreciated. Your vote wouldn't count if you fail to do the above.
Do you agree that forcing pronoun use is a form of compelled speech which is antithetical to the basic principles of the party?
Results
| Results | Option | Votes | % of votes cast | % of eligible voters | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Agree | 2 | 20 | 1 | ||
| Abstain | 0 | 0 | 0 | ||
| Disagree | 7 | 70 | 4 | ||
| Block | 1 | 10 | 1 | ||
| Undecided | 174 | 95 |
Dhanesh
Sun 21 Mar 2021 9:35AM
Pirate Praveen
Sun 21 Mar 2021 10:03AM
Also give at least a week's time
Kannan V M
Sun 21 Mar 2021 5:20PM
>Disagreeing to this poll would require you to submit a reasonable source or study with enough sample size that proves otherwise.
That study report is irrelevant when the topic under discussion is about allowing people to choose their way of life without imposing someone's prejudice on them. Let them play with the toy they prefer.
Shamil
Mon 22 Mar 2021 10:36AM
Failing to disprove the tenets of this study..
What exactly are the tenets of that study according to you?
That study showed that there is a correlation between a young child's sex and and their toy preferences. It doesn't say anything on the rigidity of gender.
If you are going to talk scientific, please cite a study that "proves" that gender is binary.As that seems to be your issue here (lol studies giving "absolute proof" of human behaviour)
Pankaj Jangid
Mon 22 Mar 2021 1:38PM
I think language may evolve in future. As it did in past. But nobody should compel anyone to use a fixed set of words.
Pirate Bady
Mon 22 Mar 2021 2:41PM
disagreeing for the reasons mentioned in this comment: https://codema.in/d/oTlCjyAx/adopt-a-moderation-policy-for-matrix-room/67
Raju Devidas
Mon 22 Mar 2021 3:05PM
Your study is a word document, not a citation to any published study, not on a recognized publication source. I can not accept an editable word document as a source to form my opinions.
michael john sinclair.
Fri 23 Apr 2021 3:46PM
Any one who ist Educated enough to understand what Gender Equlity is should agree with this COC. I respect all other people here who do not understand it and will try very hard to explain it. Men are not superior Over Women any more. It ist Scientifical proven that the XY Chromosom from Men is Fading and getting smaller as the XX Chromosom From Women is Striving and will win the Evolution Race. If you are a Man and can't deal with this fact then hard luck.
FirescarSun 21 Mar 2021 10:05AM
I extended it to a month.
Manav SethiSun 21 Mar 2021 4:05PM
IMHO pronouns must not be forced upon anyone . Pronouns are to be used out of respect for any person. It is as simple as saying that I identify as a girl so I would like to be referred as she/her that's it. If you accidentlly call the person him they can't go to court on you and ask for money. It's just out of respect.
I completely agree with gender being a man made concept. We as humans are inherently animals but as civilization progressed we need some sort of order in this chaotic world and hence concepts like male , female monogamy marriage etc were created.
The idea being propagated in the coc is that you should use gender neutral pronouns whenever speaking . This doesn't mean that if I accidentlly call you him instead of zhe the mods would kick me out but, if you told me explicitly that you are zhe or an apache helicopter then If I call you he then that would be considered a violation.
This is as simple as saying heyguys.cc when you someone refers a group as guys
Kannan V MSun 21 Mar 2021 5:21PM
@Firescar The point of inclusive language is to prevent making people uncomfortable in friendly discussions. Doing something we already know will hurt someone while we could avoid it, is not a nice thing and we all avoid doing such automatically. We all love to see people happy. The CoC under debate is to prevent deliberate harassment, not to attack one's free speech.
The boundary of our liberty lies at where we use our freedom with an intention to harm someone, I don't think the CoC should attack someone's liberty, but neither should it allow deliberate attempts to harm someone.
> Rather than this being an act of inclusiveness, it is an act of compulsion without its grounds in science.
I don't think this is a matter that should be analysed with quantitative methods since subject that should be under study is not clearly defined (is it about the percentage of people get offended by deliberate use of wrong pronouns? or how many pronouns majority of people think should exist? those would be surveys, but then again, it will be just a majority opinion)
NB: its not that hard to use universal pronouns, also some people will really get happy when we use it, isn't that enough reason to do it?
Manav SethiSun 21 Mar 2021 6:21PM
@Firescar what do you propose should we call everyone by the pronoun he then ? There has to be some pronoun right
Update CoC to make discussions comfortable for everyone to participate.
proposal by Kannan V M Closed Mon 29 Mar 2021 9:00AM
Choice of words matter!
Indian pirates is a community with an open space for political discussions. Indian pirates not only encourage criticism, but also criticism is a part of the core values Indian Pirates represent.
While criticism should be encouraged, Indian Pirates as an open space for discussions, should also encourage everyone to join the existing discussions and start new ones. For which we should guarantee mutual respect in discussions that take place in Indian Pirates. Absence of which can reduce the number of constructive discussions and can also make people reluctant to join the discussions, which is against the purpose of Indian Pirates as an open space for discussions.
To keep this open space alive and productive, I request Indian Pirates to be polite and treat everyone with respect in the discussions and add the following to code of conduct.
1. Free speech comes with a responsibility to choose the words respectfully to others. Disrespectful behaviour in discussions will not be tolerated.
2. Intolerance towards a community or individual who is enjoying their liberty will be considered as hate speech.
Results
| Results | Option | Votes | % of votes cast | % of eligible voters | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Agree | 7 | 88 | 4 | ||
| Abstain | 0 | 0 | 0 | ||
| Disagree | 0 | 0 | 0 | ||
| Block | 1 | 13 | 1 | ||
| Undecided | 177 | 96 |
Shamil
Mon 22 Mar 2021 10:38AM
Yes. It is easy to disagree without being disrespectful :)
Firescar
Mon 22 Mar 2021 12:56PM
Well well, here we have another example of left liberalism having a circle jerk of opinion polls. 'Intolerance towards a community or individual who is enjoying their liberty will be considered as hate speech.'
The quotes of religious texts that terror outfits use to undertake terror, that will be deemed as hate speech like social media giants Facebook and Twitter openly ban any mention of violent quotes from any scriptures calling it hate speech and targeting a community.
FirescarMon 22 Mar 2021 1:09PM
@Shamil The whole idea behind gender being a social construct stems from the fact that the society, parents and other social influences cause the children to cater towards gender stereotyped roles. Meaning socialism claims that gender stereotypes are induced in children by external influences, one such major stereotypical example being toys. The study shows that a majority of children even without the influence of external forces still naturally deviate to their gender stereotyped toys, meaning gender being a social construct falls flat on the face. Which automatically renders the forced gender neutral pronouns unscientific.
Since you failed to produce a valid study to counter my study, your vote is invalidated. Yes, Studies do give absolute proof rather than individuals who claim themselves as cats and dogs. Its called gender dysphoria and it is a mental illness which needs to be treated rather than forced upon general public. Try again.
FirescarMon 22 Mar 2021 1:12PM
@Eddie Ningombam Since you failed to provide a valid study to counter mine, your vote goes invalid. This is a scientific poll rather than an opinion poll. Failing to provide a valid study that disproves the study I provided invalidates your vote. Sorry. Try again please.
FirescarMon 22 Mar 2021 3:06PM
@Pirate Bady Since your post failed to mention any relevant study that disproves the study that I posted, your vote stands invalidated. Try again please. Bring forth a study this time around rather than personal opinion.
Create a procedure for enforcing Code of Conduct
proposal by Pirate Bady Closed Tue 6 Apr 2021 6:00PM
Indian Pirates now have a standard procedure for dealing with CoC violations
Code of Conduct (CoC) is of no use if we can't enforce it. Free speech is not an excuse to violate CoC because freedom comes with responsibilities. CoC will be applied in its spirit, which means specific instances of violations should not be considered in isolation but with respect to the context and the past behavior of the member. Not every possible instance of misconduct can be hard coded in a CoC document. So if two or more permanent members recognize one member's activity as harmful to the whole community, for example (but not limited to) by showing lack of mutual respect (using swear words is not the only disrespectful behavior, continuously raising one-sided arguments without showing willingness to hear others opinions can also be considered as disrespectful as it doesn't bring anything useful to the community as a whole and at the same time does more harm by wasting time and energy of committed people), gaslighting, sealioning and other forms of trolling or discrimination or harassment on a regular basis even after proper warning can be considered as CoC violation.
I suggest to adopt the following steps as the official procedure to deal with CoC violations:
Any one violating CoC will be warned by a permanent member.
If the violation is repeated, there will be a reminder to stop, twice.
-
If the violation continues even after 3 warnings,
-
In matrix room:
They'll be muted for a week.
On further violation, mute for a month.
On further violation, mute for an year.
On further violation, ban permanently.
-
In loomio group:
They'll be removed from the main group and can join back after a month.
on further violation, remove permanently.
-
Warnings have to be given explicitly and at least one permanent member should vouch the decision to mute/ban other than the one who proposes it.
The rules apply for everyone equally irrespective of the associate/membership status except that there's no provision to ban a permanent member permanently. In case a permanent member continues to keep violating the CoC even after the specified limits, there's no point in collaborating together. Either the permanent member shall leave the group on their own or the community needs to be hard forked without including that member.
Results
| Results | Option | Votes | % of votes cast | % of eligible voters | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Agree | 8 | 100 | 4 | ||
| Abstain | 0 | 0 | 0 | ||
| Disagree | 0 | 0 | 0 | ||
| Block | 0 | 0 | 0 | ||
| Undecided | 176 | 96 |
Akshay
Tue 23 Mar 2021 3:12AM
Anything that saves Indian Pirates from this sorry state.
Pirate PraveenSun 28 Mar 2021 12:16PM
@Kannan V M since we don't have consensus at this level. You can start a proposal in associates sub group.
Kannan V MMon 5 Apr 2021 5:58AM
I do have doubts on 5th point of https://codema.in/d/oTlCjyAx/adopt-a-moderation-policy-for-matrix-room/84.
Hard fork will not be easy or even impractical in a big group. Doing it because one permanent member not following CoC is highly disproportionate.
Facing this issue is tough, but one practical alternative will be making action no.2 in matrix room and action no.1 in Loomio group as the highest punishment available for permanent member.
michael john sinclair.Mon 5 Apr 2021 9:03AM
The same Procedere for everyone, This COC must be on Equal terms for all who use it Especially Pirate Members who stand for this COC. We are the People Striving for Fair Disscusion on this plattform. One Persona alone must never take these decisions, It must be Voted on. If you are effected directly you also have report to membership in the matter. So we can all have the chance to take a glance at the history. The member effected should never mute people.
To update CoC procedures for violation.
proposal by Kannan V M Closed Thu 15 Apr 2021 10:00AM
Point 5 of previously passed proposal states,
The rules apply for everyone equally irrespective of the associate/membership status except that there's no provision to ban a permanent member permanently. In case a permanent member continues to keep violating the CoC even after the specified limits, there's no point in collaborating together. Either the permanent member shall leave the group on their own or the community needs to be hard forked without including that member.
The action of hard forking community because one permanent member choose not to follow CoC is highly disproportionate and impractical
.
So I suggest the following alternative for permanent members,
If a permanent member violate CoC,
In matrix room
For the first time in last three months, 1 week mute.
More than once in three months, 1 month mute.
No permanent ban/mute.
In Codema
For each time, they will be removed from codema groups for one month.
Results
| Results | Option | Votes | % of votes cast | % of eligible voters | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Agree | 1 | 100 | 1 | ||
| Abstain | 0 | 0 | 0 | ||
| Disagree | 0 | 0 | 0 | ||
| Block | 0 | 0 | 0 | ||
| Undecided | 183 | 99 |
Firescar ·Sun 21 Mar 2021 9:49AM
Dhanesh, can you pinpoint to the study in that website please.