Assembly Elections

I'm not sure about a political party as such.. Cuz I.Don't know the first thing about politics.. Just.the outline..But I do agree that it will help.spread the pirate idea.

Were you thinking of forming a political party in the name of Indian pirates or Pirate party of India?

And I will tell you this: it seems like the right time to form a party if at all we agree to.. The timing seems perfect.. The whole.differential pricing, FreeBasics and the net neutrality issue as a whole has stirred up a shit.storm the government government did not expect and in the process a LOT of people are now.aware of Digital rights, etc etc.. They could.relate to a party like ours..

@arjun we can contest as independent candidates without a political party right now. The main idea is to expose ourselves to more people. As for registering a political party, we need a minimum of 100 members and we'll think about it when we have at least 100 permanent members.

@praveenarimbrathod k..
Where are you planning to contest from?

And how much Money would be required for an independent candidate?

@arjun first we need to find who are all agree to this idea and second who are all willing to spend time on it. Looks like you, me and @sruthi is there. If one more person joins us, we can do it. As per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deposit_%28politics%29#India 10000 rupees is the deposit. We'll crowd fund it. If we have enough people willing to contest and raise enough money, we'll do it.

@hashsingularity can you share your reasoning for disagreement?

I have the following concerns,
First of all, It's highly probable that it won't be able to win any seat. Even if it wins, How well can the Pirate party be able to address social issues which affects people from the lower strata of of the society (especially digitally illiterate). There is no inherent drive in the party ideology to address income inequality and other social evils. And election is a kind of zero sum game, "Evil" candidates gets upper hand if some bifurcation of votes happen in the vote share of an "Angel" candidate due to the presence of a pirate candidate.

@hashsingularity we are not aiming to win right now anyway. Winning needs a lot of hard work, which we have not put in yet. Except for AAP and TDP, every party started with losing or small victories.

We don't have a finished blueprint of the society we want to create, so its only natural we miss out many important things from our platform. But it is not correct to say we don't address income inequality and other social evils. That is the very first section of our "basic principles".

"Section 1: We understand individuals and families of all sections of the society and different geographic locations have a right to realize equal life chances regardless of identity. Economic inequity, caste or gender or sexuality based discrimination, and differential abilities prevent many from realizing the equity of opportunities."

http://pirates.org.in/constitution/#/3

This is the same kind of argument commonly used in the US to discourage independent candidates. If you accept this argument, there can never be a new party, we'll have to always chose better of the two evils. In case of Kerala, I don't think a Pirate candidate will help BJP win any seats.

@hashsingularity In fact one of the main reasons why I put forward this suggestion is that we should be able to spread our ideas to non-techie crowd as well. Currently the ideas are spread only through online media to netizens. I feel that by contesting, we will be able to reach out to common crowd as well.

Don't want to sound like a wet blanket, but we are pitching ourselves toward results before working toward them. An independent candidate does zero to raise awareness for Pirate Party. They don't campaign with party name. Them losing makes concrete something inaccurate - that people don't prefer them, when the reality is that people don't know them or know why they need them.

In my view, if the goal is raising awareness about the party, it would be better to see where we have numbers in one region, raise awareness there and collect enough members - hard members to form a party. That will take a hundred members at least. That is an achievable goal, will do something to raise awareness about the party and doesn't just randomly contest without any expectation of win. IMO if we can't raise 100 members for a party, we are nowhere near ready to contest an election.

If we want an election experience, another way of doing it is to find a party or candidate we really like and volunteer with them explicitly for that election and not implying an ongoing endorsement - like an apprenticeship for the party. Our name doesn't feature on their campaign, we are not responsible for the actions of the candidate or even endorse the ideology officially. Merely find someone we believe is doing good, and magnify their voice and in the process learn for ourselves how the election and campaign process works.

@balasankarchelamat @vidyut you can always go with other ideas. I hope you don't want to stop people who are convinced about the effectiveness. Why it has to be either or? Those who feel other ways are more efficient can do those. I'm convinced of the effectiveness and willing to put efforts to contest elections. If someone wants to register Pirate Party right away, no one is stopping anyone from doing it. Let those of us convinsed about effectiveness of fighting elections as a strategy do it.

My Response:
We don't have a working model other than some 'Ideas in box'. We haven't take a stand in any of the socio-economic disturbances yet. There are so many problems that directly impact common man than privacy & surveillance issues. If we are contesting for president of FSF position, these are enough. But its not. We have to face common man and to explain things in their perspective.

For instance what's our stand in Athirappally issue? How we gonna fix energy problem without impairing environment?

"An idea becomes a material force when it grips the society" - How all we prepared for it?

to add to that, there are cheap and quick ways to gain publicity and spread awareness - like public protests. If you can spend time door to door campaigning, why not do something simpler and reach more people like holding a banner in a crowded place talking about a very relevant issue (for example, FSMK did this during net neutrality debate. Their photos are still used in articles about net neutrality).

@praveenarimbrathod If I wanted to "stop anyone" from participating, I would've voted Block. :) . It is just that I am not interested (and doesn't have time/energy) to support someone who does this.

All the best.

@praveenarimbrathod when an idea is put to the vote, the general assumption is that it is our opinion that is asked for, which we provided. If you wished for no disagreement and merely were interested in who would support, it should be a call for volunteers instead of vote. I don't recall stopping anyone. My vote was asked for and I voted. I provided my reasoning. If that is not required, then there should be some way of making it explicit so we don't piss you off with unwanted ideas and don't waste own time articulating them.

On one hand we refuse to commit ourselves to a political process to such an averse extent that we refuse to call ourselves a group intending to be a political party. On the other, we are discussing contesting elections and like the whim so much we have a problem with disagreement. Where is the sense in this? Where is the respect for the democratic process if you intentionally put up candidates with no known competence to be in a publicly elected position? It is not about winning or losing. It is about having enough respect for the democratic system that you at least care to put up candidates who would be good for the state/country if they won.

This may be a wet blanket on grand plans of elections, but that is my opinion and I have a right to it. No one is telling you to believe that what I say makes sense.

@vidyut my response was not so much about disagreement itself, but saying something else is better without taking initiative to do that "better something".

@praveenarimbrathod Why would I take an initiative to contest elections? I don't want to! It was a feasible suggestion for someone who was developing an interest in elections, instead of a half baked individual effort putting up a candidate we don't even think would be a good representative if he won.

If this election idea had come in the wake of any serious political interest shown, it made sense. We have no interest in politics. Elections are not a game. If we can't even take that seriously, why are we a good idea for the country even in an unlikely future?

@akhilkrishnans how do you see yourself in this group? When we were discussing Rohit Vemula's killing (https://codema.in/d/VqXgAhFp/statement-on-killing-of-rohith-vemula) you did not participate. Neither did you initiate any discussions on the topics you cared about.

The point is, we will involve in issues when any of us cares about that issue. There is no polit beauro or high command that decides what issues we take on or engage with. We cannot have a stand of all issues under the sun when going to people. Our stand and ideas will evolve when we interact. We are not going to sell out perfect product to people.

We are going to people with an idea that they can have their voice heard without creating hierarchies in our collective. We are asking them to join and share our stand on issues. So when they ask our stand about Athirappally or any other issue, we can ask them what should be our position and we can discuss and make a stand on it. As for now, why don't you initiate a thread on that issue and propose a stand for us? I'll be happy to join you if you initiate it.

If we are not discussing these issues (like @vidyut said about Aadhar), it just means no one cared enough to initiate it. If you start a thread on it and propose some actions, I'll be happy to join you.

@akshay you could have started a campaign on the lines of FSMK and you can still do it. If you take initiative, others who share your enthusiasm for that issue will join you. It does not have to be excluding what we are proposing. In this case, I'm volunteering to do what I'm proposing, are you doing the same? It is not enough to say something is better, we need people who want to do that. If you take initiative on this issue, I'll be happy to join you.

@vidyut since this was a major decision, I wanted to know if anyone wanted to stop us, by choosing a block, indicating a fundamental disagreement on principles. Since there are no blocking votes, I'll proceed with this action with people who already agreed. As always, there is no compulsion in doing anything you don't agree with.

@vidyut as for contesting elections knowing we will not win is done by even major parties. BJP has never one a single seat in Kerala until now, but they always had candidates. CPIM or Congress also put candidates in seats where they know they are unlikely to win. It is also about how much vote you gain.

@vidyut I think you are not familiar with independent candidates commonly supported by political parties in Kerala. Both Congress and CPIM sometimes back independent candidates. They will have their own symbol and not a member of the party, but everyone knows it is supported by which party. Also backing good candidate is a good idea. Lets do both. I'm volunteering to contest and amplifying a good candidate. I can split my efforts to do both.

Everyone, please propose candidates that are good and we should support.

I have created a sub group here https://codema.in/g/7q28MB6G/indian-pirates-assembly-elections for those who are interested to be a part of assembly election campaign.

We got 170 votes with handful of volunteers and raising just 18k rupees. We have personally met 700-1000 people, but almost half of them were from other constituencies. We are analysing the result at https://codema.in/d/HgeUPzlO/result.

As a result of this campaign, we became more active and more people came to us. Loomio membership crossed 100, it was around 90. About 8 more associates joined. Twitter account started and now have about 34 followers. Resurrected facebook page of Pirate Movement of India and likes grew from 22 to 132.

:)