codema.in
Mon 10 May 2021 9:27AM

Add to basic principles: Annihilation of Caste

PP Pirate Praveen Public Seen by 61

"The real method of breaking up the Caste System was... to destroy the religious notions upon which caste is founded" - Dr. B. R. Ambedkar. We are committed to Ambedkar's dream of annihilation of caste.

Malayalam: "ജാതിവ്യവസ്ഥ തകർക്കാനുള്ള ശരിയായ വഴി ജാതി സൃഷ്ടിക്കാനുപയോഗിച്ച മതത്തിന്റെ ആശയങ്ങൾ തകർക്കുക എന്നതാണ്". ഡോ. ബി. ആർ. അംബേദ്കർ. ജാതി ഇല്ലാതാക്കാനുള്ള അംബേദ്കറുടെ സ്വപ്നം യാഥാർത്ഥ്യമാക്കാൻ ഞങ്ങൾ നിലകൊള്ളുന്നു.

PP

Poll Created Mon 10 May 2021 9:29AM

Add to basic principles: Annihilation of Caste Closed Thu 10 Jun 2021 9:00AM

Outcome
by Pirate Praveen Thu 10 Jun 2021 10:46AM

Since there were two blocking votes, this proposal did not pass. We are trying two alternate proposals that tries to address some of the concerns raised.

"The real method of breaking up the Caste System was... to destroy the religious notions upon which caste is founded" - Dr. B. R. Ambedkar. We are committed to Ambedkar's dream of annihilation of caste.

Malayalam: "ജാതിവ്യവസ്ഥ തകർക്കാനുള്ള ശരിയായ വഴി ജാതി സൃഷ്ടിക്കാനുപയോഗിച്ച മതത്തിന്റെ ആശയങ്ങൾ തകർക്കുക എന്നതാണ്". ഡോ. ബി. ആർ. അംബേദ്കർ. ജാതി ഇല്ലാതാക്കാനുള്ള അംബേദ്കറുടെ സ്വപ്നം യാഥാർത്ഥ്യമാക്കാൻ ഞങ്ങൾ നിലകൊള്ളുന്നു.

23-May-21: Add Malayalam translation.

Results

Results Option % of points Voters
Agree 71.4% 5 EN PP PB S C
Abstain 0.0% 0  
Disagree 0.0% 0  
Block 28.6% 2 KVM PV
Undecided 0% 179 V A D K S CMJ S F RD MS RS P A PJ J A S MK SK NV

7 of 186 people have participated (3%)

PB

Pirate Bady
Abstain
Tue 11 May 2021 8:20PM

I agree with the core idea, but it doesn't look like manifesto is the right place to add this. Manifesto should contain concrete/actionable items, for eg. illegalizing caste-based matrimonial ads. I think this should go to the basic principles in the constitution of Indian Pirates instead. This issue as a whole is a very wide as well as a complex one that cannot be fixed by a government in 5 or 10 years. Having this in basic principles means we identify it as a core issue.

PV

Pirate Vik
Abstain
Fri 14 May 2021 2:58PM

Caste may have religious foundations however without addressing the fact that is was greatly weaponised and expanded by the British Empire, we miss the opportunity to accurately depict what has happened and also potentially lose the support of moderate religious groups.

KVM

Kannan V M
Block
Sat 15 May 2021 11:05AM

Reasons: https://codema.in/d/Wi2PoGkJ/add-to-basic-principles-annihilation-of-caste/13

Note: The views on how to bring a social change can distinguish a progressive institution from a fascist one. Because of that, any statement of such topics should reflect our perspectives of social change and how to bring those changes together.

PV

Pirate Vik
Block
Tue 18 May 2021 11:08AM

Caste may have religious foundations however without addressing the fact that is was greatly weaponised and expanded by the British Empire, we miss the opportunity to accurately depict what has happened and also potentially lose the support of moderate religious groups.

Changing my vote to block. We can do much better than this and for me, supporting this statement falls well short of the sort of work that is needed.

PP

Pirate Praveen Wed 12 May 2021 7:10AM

@Pirate Bady I have updated the poll to change it to basic principles instead of manifesto.

PB

Pirate Bady Fri 14 May 2021 5:27PM

@vik@hamara i don't think the current proposal blocks us from acknowledging and addressing the issues introduced by the british rule. but i also think that we shouldn't be afraid of talking bitter truths just because it upsets a particular group. human rights should always be above religious sentiments.

PV

Pirate Vik Sat 15 May 2021 7:41AM

@Pirate Bady I do not agree that the real method of breaking up the cast system is to destroy the religious notions it was founded on. I think that's a highly ineffective way and misses the actual reality of how caste is intertwined in Indian culture rather than religion. Aligning with this statement prevents us from providing a more nuanced and accurate argument. Religious leaders telling their followers not to follow caste does not work, there are generational cultural practices that must be addressed and people require significant reeducation. Aligning to this statement gets none of that done and misses an opportunity to do something better in 2021 than 1939.

PV

Pirate Vik Sat 15 May 2021 7:41AM

@Pirate Bady I do not agree that the real method of breaking up the cast system is to destroy the religious notions it was founded on. I think that's a highly ineffective way and misses the actual reality of how caste is intertwined in Indian culture rather than religion. Aligning with this statement prevents us from providing a more nuanced and accurate argument. Religious leaders telling their followers not to follow caste does not work, there are generational cultural practices that must be addressed and people require significant reeducation. Aligning to this statement gets none of that done and misses an opportunity to do something better in 2021 than 1939.

A

Akshay Sat 15 May 2021 9:05AM

Though Ambedkar argues that caste doesn't have the same social significance among non-Hindus as it has among Hindus I'm not sure whether this argument has to be interpreted as it is today. My reading of Ambedkar's idea of positioning caste in the fundamentals of Hinduism is that Ambedkar wanted to provoke the thoughts of the followers and make them question the fundamentals of the society including (and starting from) religion. I don't think Ambedkar would have meant to say that religion leads to caste. Rather what Ambedkar said is that destroying religion leads to destruction of caste. And there's a very important difference between those two ways of putting it. It's that destruction of religion necessitates replacement of religious thinking with a different kind of thinking (probably one that's based on equality, reason, etc) and that in turn leads to destruction of caste.

I think there are several reasons for Indian Pirates to work to eliminate the bad ways of thinking religiously (and to replace those with scientific temper, etc). There probably are also reasons to utilize the good of religion. I think it will be impossible for Indian Pirates to agree on whether we should oppose religion as a whole or whether we should work with the notion that humans cannot live without religion.

Load More